Originally by: Aslann

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And blasters use almost the same amount of cap as lasers do (more even with ship skills at 5 I think), while having smaller cap pools. QQ amarr, QQ.

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Originally by: Vrabac

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Please redirect the issue from EM damge to individual ships. Curse, pilgrim, sentinel, zealot, prophecy, omen, apocalypse, maller, arbitrator, work on them, they all suck not because of EM damage but becauses they simply suck as such.

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Originally by: ragewind

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do you have a basic maths qualification???

here are the diferances in resistances as they stand no and after you changes shiulds have 3 resitances that are lower piriod and the final only matches the one of the arrmor. basically blob of goons in missiles ships kill shiuld tankers as they have less bases resistance over 3 damage types.

Shields
Exp - 60%, Kin - 40%, Therm - 20%, EM - 0%
Armor
EM - 60%, Therm - 45%, Kin - 25%, Exp - 10%

same -5% -5% -10%

to me looks like you can quite easerly leave the 10% explosive and it isnt gimped or can we now gain em resisitance?

and as its mean to be fair and balanced can i get a 20% em on all T1 shields??? would be so nice if it was fair and equal

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Originally by: Vy'kar

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Originally by: CCP Zulupark

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What we're talking about here is fixing the EM problem. Fixing ships for a specific race (in this case Amarr) is also being done. These two things are not mutually exclusive. If we just fixed the Amarr ships EM damage would still be a problem. If we just fixed EM damage, some Amarr ships would still be a problem.

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You see, this is the misconception. Other races don't have an "EM problem." They simply don't use EM damage ammunition or drones. Amarr don't have this option unless they replace their lasers with another race's weapons.

Don't go making sweeping changes to every ship when you only need to change a handful of crystals. Your solution is like re-writing a book from the beginning because you made a typo on page 950. Fix that page and move on to finishing the book.

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Originally by: Elmicker

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I've had a chance to play with this on sisi now.

Pulled out a tri-hardened megathron and hype a couple of times each.

Raped by an abaddon.

Stuck EANMs on and it was performing exactly the same as the tri-hardened setup does on TQ.

Congratulations zulupark, you've made tri-hardeners obsolete.

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Originally by: Dristra

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Irony:

People whined about the hp buff.

Now that effective hp is lowered, they also whine.

This thread is just a ****-fest.

My thread that focused on the other changes promised to Amarr in the dev-blog got locked because of this thread, and you know what i think about this thread.

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Originally by: Steve Clone

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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--------------- Amarr Ship Fix Ideas ----------------------

Amarr EW: Tracking disruptors

These need a boost. Either give TDs scripts that somewhat affect missile OR drastically increase TD bonuses on TD bonused ships from 5% per level to 10% per level. A single tracking disruptor pointed at a ship should render its turrets basically useless. It should get TDs somewhat in line with the power of the other EW systems.

Thats all for now, thank you for listening and Im glad to see that changes are on the way.

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TBH I want tracking disruptors to stay the way it is...

Why would you want them boosted??? ironically which race does this EW affects MOST???

ITs A GOOD thing nobody uses them... leave it...

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Originally by: Julius Romanus

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My ideal changes to the Omen/Zealot are as follows:

Omen +cpu and powergrid, +dronebay and bandwidth. A 5 turret omen imo puts out too much dammage at 20km for a tier 2 cruiser. While the likely rax sized dronebay gives the omen its DPS buff in a form that can be destroyed. Keeping it in check.

Zealot, 5th turret and room to fit it. Definitely agreed that a sniper hac does not need a drone boost or a missle slot.

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Originally by: Failron

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first off i fly caldari and i use the raven for running mission's it's not a pvp'er at all if you do this it will kill the raven if your going to take 10% off caldari exp then add 10% to em as far as the armor hell do all you want to the caldai but don't kill my shield. :(

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Originally by: Zarch AlDain

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I liked the idea at first, but I have to admit having read the thread and thought about it some more I am going off it. In particular the drop to shield explosive resistance seems very unwarranted and makes this into a Minmatar buff more than an Amarr one.

As you said yourself armor tanking is currently much more popular than shield, which surely is reason in itself to not nerf shield tanking?

The other thing missing is to drop all NPCs EM resistance by 10% across the board.

I have a (slightly connected) idea too, 4 new skills:

The idea is to remove something from each races ships and then add a skill to remove it. For Amarr this would replace the energy turret ship bonus, for other races it would have a different effect. The skill would be available (but not cheap) through each races LP store and all members of a race would get their race specialisation on level 1 for free.

Amarr Ship Specialisation:
Pre-nerf: Remove the laser cap usage bonus on amarr ships
Skill Bonus: 10% reduction per level in capacitor usage of energy turrets fitted to amarr ships.
Consequence: Amarr ships can all get a second bonus, even Khanid ships gain a bit if their turret hardpoints are used.

Minmatar Ship Specialisation:
Pre-nerf: Reduce speed of minmatar ships by 10%
Skill Bonus: 4% boost to minmatar ship speed per level

Caldari Ship Specialisation:
Pre-nerf: Reduce all ships max shield capacity by 10%
Skill bonus: 4% boost to ship max shield capacity per level

Gallente Ship Specialisation:
Pre-nerf: Reduce all ships max armour by 10%
Skill bonus: 4% boost to max armour per level


Each skill enhances one of the strengths of the race, but is not essential in order to fly the ships. The main reason for the change is obvious Amarr but a similar skill is introduced to all races. This also gives an advantage to people flying their own race's ships (as they start with the specialisation skill) but the advantage can be countered by people who buy the skill for other races and train it which would be priced at the point where it is noticeable but not ground breaking (i.e. 5 million isk and 5k LP).

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Originally by: Tsu'ko

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Oh and we might see more caldari ships in pvp lol.

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Originally by: Commander Awkward

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Did you realize that nerfing resists will make freighters easier to suicide in highsec? These ships has no way of compensating for lower resists with changes to the fitting setup.

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Originally by: Pinky Denmark

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Dropping EM on armor is the short term working solution, BUT:
1)Armor tank vs Shield tank for PvP is the real issue
2)Efficiency of omni tanks is the major issue of armor vs shield for PvP
3)Having to drop expl resist on shield because we have recharge is wrong

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Originally by: Steve Clone

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Old Minmatar Shield: 0% Em, 20% Th, 40% Kin, 60% Exp = 120%
Old Minmatar Armor: 70% Em, 35% Th, 25% Kin, 10% Exp = 140%

Old Minmatar Shield: 10% Em, 25% Th, 35% Kin, 65% Exp = 135%
Old Minmatar Armor: 70% Em, 40% Th, 30% Kin, 10% Exp = 150%

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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We love the changes to Zealot and Apoc! Good job zulu!

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Ha ha, Apoc is now the best sniper in the game hands down.

Yea, its ********.

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Originally by: Blutreiter

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Can someone who is playing on SiSi give some additional information on the current tweaking on those ships please?

Thanks in advance!

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Originally by: Cosmo Raata

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Lets see the checklist:

Apoc rework____________________Check
Zealot/Omen 5th turret_________Check
EM rebalance___________________Check (even though it wasn't great)
Tracking Disruption fix________Check
Laser Cap reduction_________?????
Laser Fitting redution_________?????
7th turret Absolution__________?????
Retribution Med slot___________?????
Nos rework for Curse/Pilgrim___?????

So, its a start, but there is more work to do, dont forget CCP.

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Originally by: Kel Dario

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Edited by: Kel Dario on 02/02/2008 13:42:02
I been pondering over this EM-resistance change a bit further and I was asking myself: Isn't a reduction of -10% EM on armor on all ships in EVE going a bit to far?

Shouldn't it be just the tech 1 ships that get the reduction and leave the tech 2 alone?

Reason for that is because I dunno if everyone fit 2 EAMS II + DCU II when hitting power is more useful. Why should you othervise fly expensive uninsurable tech 2 ships in the first place when you want the damage potential?

I fear that this EM-resistance change will screw up many already good setups and make omnitanks and EM-rigs mandatory, so the problem with amarr won't be solved it will just be shuffled around. EM-Resistance is already lowest resistance on many tech 2 ships after damage mods and the each race resistance hole been plugged.

I am really doubtfull if this is the right way to go but we have to see I guess.

EDIT: Added a line for clarification of what I mean.

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Originally by: Pinky Denmark

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By far the largest problem is that armor tanking is quite a lot more popular than shield tanking and EM by far is the highest resistance on armor for all races.

To maintain a correct ratio between shield tanking and armor tanking we'd also remove 10% from the explosive resistances on shields.

Why does it sound like CCP Want to maintain armor tanking as the "quite a lot more popular" form of tanking in PvP ??????

Explosive damage doesn't really have an issue as most people are armor tankers and the explosive dealing Projective Weapons also deal a great amount of EM damage with the right ammunition. Also being able to outDPS a caldari shield tanker using missiles.

And all arguments to nerf shield resists so far doesn't make sense at all...

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Originally by: Pinky Denmark

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Because shield tanking in pve is ridiculously overpowered?

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Yeah - this balance is all about PvE ... Shield tanks for PvE are great because we don't have to tackle or fit MWDs and enable us to fit damage mods.

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Originally by: rgreat

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How about Hybrid damage boost then?

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Originally by: rgreat

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No point to use 'long range' t2 ammo for blasters. Not much of a difference.

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Originally by: rgreat

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Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 14:25:40
As for 'preserve damage/range' argument.

Damage of all weapons except hybrids was increased due to reduced base resistances on EM/EXP.

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Originally by: Cpt Abestos

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Why not just boost lasers and the amarr ships that are bad and leave resists alone?

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Originally by: Steve Clone

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Why do Gallente believe they can win ALL 1v1?
Good Zealot pilots WILL use Scorch range as their advantage...
Good Deimos pilot will know when not to run face down (like a bull) towards a Zealot...

Gallente should not complain when Amarr is using their 'range' advantage...
Amarr should not complain when they get BBQPWN at close encounters...

BTW Use ECM drones...Deimos > Zealot

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Originally by: Zamolxiss

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CCP please look at this vid http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/dancetroll/ARMAGEDDON.mkv
And please don't tell me that the first thing that comes to your mind is.."Mehh, i know what we can do, let's nerf the resistances, this should balace things out.."
This is ridiculous, Amarr has enough gank, allways had..
Let's take for example the most succesfull pvp ships outhere.... the Domi, Ishtar, Myrm, Vaga, Sleip etc... the diference betwin them and the Amarr roundup is not the ressistance to a certin tipe of damage, it's just stupid to think that... the diference is Versatility.. the fact that besides gank they cam bring to the table Speed, Ewar, a full Tackle... things that most amarr ships can't..
It is absolutly ridiculous to think that LEVELING everything in EVE would satisfy anyone..
I for one... expected a little more thought and respect from the people that DEVELOP this game, regarding us, and the TIME and money we've invested in it..
Please stop breaking this game !

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Originally by: Melwitax

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Armor resists are already typically 10% higher then shield resists to begin with. Using the raven as an example. The raven's armor resists are kinetic: 45%, thermal 25%. For shields it's 40 & 20% respectively. Lowering the em resist on armor would simply mean that the cumulative total of resists is now the same.


- Mel

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Originally by: Zamolxiss

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I don't like caves m8 cause they're filled with peolple like u.. If u see any "Amarr boost" in Zulupark's blog u either fail to understand the basics of EVE or u simply have the brain power or roadkill... no offence :P

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Originally by: Zamolxiss

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...troll...

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Originally by: Yazmina

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This guy makes a lot of sense.

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Originally by: HayesDuSid

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...

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Originally by: Sky Marshal

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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No he doesnt, he totally fails to understand why shield resistance total needs to be a bit less then armor res total.

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Hum... I guess you never use a shield tank.

The Shield Regen acts like the Capa Regen, so if you are at 30% Shield to have the maximum of Hp/s, it is that you will die shortly anyways.

And same if it don't use capacitor, it requires, for a good efficiency, to use some low slot module, but I need to fit some BCS.

So for my Cerberus, I has... 22 HP/s at 30% Shield, or 6/7 at 75%, as I want a DPS like the Zealot, who can repair his tank by 35 HP/s with a correct fit (medium repairer).

Yeah, this free regen is really great and really helpful...... It is good only in a Drake.

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Originally by: HayesDuSid

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(makes sense to give the speed freaks tracking disruption), make target painters generic, so they finally have a good ew.

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Originally by: Praxis1452

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lol...! Everyone knows your just a boost amarr troll. You know you'd be perfectly happy if amarr was the only race you could pvp efficiently in.

LOL! at you criticizing other people

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Originally by: Cailais

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Hmm. From what Ive seen on sisi some of these changes are pretty, well...drastic. I generally fly a curse, and well its not great but it can just about survive some engagements pre nerf/boost.

Now it gets 2 shot volleyd to bits by an apoc that it cant even target its so far away.

Im not sure where the devs are going here - kinda worried really. Like "subscription in doubt" worried, and I never figured Id say that...

C.

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Originally by: DanMck

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still nothing on cap reduction ?

em/thermal ratio ?

beams fitting ?

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Originally by: Stephanie Cormak

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Hmm, caldari shield tanking already sucks. I think the minus 10% from explosive resist will hurt that race's tank even more. I know caldari is not really a pvp race, at least not solo, but some people still use them for pvp, it needs all the help it can get for its tank in my opinion.

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Originally by: Delphi Disra

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How about not nerfing ships like you promised? Just boost the ones that lack firepower.

Boo on nerfing resists, just give the amarr better firepower if thats what you think is needed.

Personally a well skilled ammarr pilot is by far way more effective than any other race i can think of.

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Originally by: Ira Theos

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Said by others here, and I agree,

IT IS RIDICULOUS TO NERF THE TARGET WHEN THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE GUN IS SHOOTING BLANKS....

WHY DON'T YOU JUST INCREASE AMARR DPS DIRECTLY RATHER THAN TRYING TO BACK THE HORSE INTO THE BARN THRU A HOLE IN THE ROOF?? OR IS THIS SOME QUAINT QUIRK IN ICELANDIC LOGIC THAT MAKES YOU DO THINGS THIS WAY??

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Originally by: BhallSpawn

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Your kid is in school, and he's got a learning disablity (ie amarr)
The teacher basically encourages the other kids (other races) to not do as well so that your kid won't feel as bad..... cause afterall, he can't do as good on tests and stuff.

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Originally by: Law Enforcer

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Edited by: Law Enforcer on 22/02/2008 17:59:47
there's way to much whining going on in this thread.

amarr got boosted by making everyone else weaker to amarr. I don't see the problem? minmatar got a slight boost as well which was needed.

the devs went about this the best way possible.
if they left EM armor resists as is and directly boosted amarr, it would have been a horrible blow to shield tanking.

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Originally by: Distrans

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hey can we get over this amarr thing? minmatar is the word ..

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